gay marriage

[Hyraxylos]

[ScathingKatana]

I didnt really read much of that but im just going to put my opinion out there....

I believe that gay marriage should be allowed. Why? Well many different reasons. One is that I dont think the goverment should be allowed to tell us who we can fall in love with. The goverment can't tell us how to style our hair or what to say so who says they can define love as between a man and a woman? I believe that marriage in the eyes of the government is just tax cuts and a way to count how many people there are in this country with a little piece of paper. So if that is all it is why should we say no? I believe that gay marriage should be allowed more than ever in this country. I feel that the government should not be allowed to tell us what marriage is when the divorce rate in this country gets higher each year, showing that as a country the United States takes the "holy vow" of marriage less and less serious each year. If Brittney Spears can be married for a night than why cant to gay men be in love and marriage for the rest of their lives? I understand that many think that homosexuality is wrong and condemn it and they support their condemnation through their faith right? Well one thing the bible says is that God should be the only one to judge and to love your neighbor as yourself. Now unless my bible is missing something im sure it says your neighbor as yourself and not your straight neighbor as yourself. Many condemn homosexuality and say that it is wrong and are almost afriad of gay people and dont want anything to do with them. But i believe that a true christian would not condemn the sinner but the sin and love the person all the same. I think that everyone who thinks that homosexuality is wrong is just blind to the fact of its going to happen. I feel that the Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transexual movement in this country will be surmount to a great Civil rights movement and everyone should just stop judging and start loving. And one more thing, someone said earlier that homosexuality could be contributed to birth defect or you are born that way. I agree that you are born either straight or homosexual but the simple fact that you are referring to it as a "birth defect" is degrading. These people are not defective and there is NOTHING wrong with them. You love who you love and you can't help it. Im sure we've all had those crushes on someone which we cant explain how or why we have them but they are there and if you cant control these how are others supposed to control theirs? Everyone needs to accept and love instead of condemn.
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Audaces Fortuna Iuvat....

[Icedheart]

Simple enough

Instead of me dragging on about all my thoughts and such, I'll make it simple for now;

Support it, I find 'gays' to be kind, and happy people, I have met many bisexuals, queer people and lesbians in my time, and me myself am a bisexual, so yeah... I would support it.

It's up to them what they do, how they do it and all, we all have our own opinions on things, our own way of doing things and that's how they do things, and I personally have no problem and think we haven't got the rights to just what happens, for we all have free will-yes?

So yeah, tried to make it short and sweet, I could drag on...
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Their enchanting voices.Cry to the crystal moon.As light of silver, descends with grace.The wolves prowl restlessly.Calling to each other.

[Hyraxylos]

WARNING! Bitter cynicism and heavy bias!

Proposition 8, for those who like me sometimes have a hard time memorizing which number lines up with which legal concept, is a so-called "amendment" to the California state constitution which forbids homosexuals to have the same civil rights as everyone else, instead replacing it with a bizarre "partnership" label which argues that "civil unions" will be "separate but equal". If those words don't set off alarms in the minds of every American who reads this post, then I don't know what would.
People who are undecided or are supportive of the proposition ask what possible harm could this have. The thing is, the words "separate but equal" are cursed. Whenever they're used as a means of justifying something, something goes wrong along the way. It's like labelling a product "New and Improved", or stepping outside and saying out loud "What a beautiful day! What could POSSIBLY go wrong??", unaware of the piano that's about to fall on you. The doctrine of "separate but equal" provides all kinds of sneaky openings for exploits and corruption; maybe same-sex couples wouldn't receive as much tax relief as heterosexuals. I could easily see it happen as it did fifty years ago.

Here are a few arguments previously presented by the other side that anyone could pulverize easily with only five seconds of thought:

1. We're just protecting the sanctity of marriage. Banning marriage to protect marriage is like destroying a Vietnamese village in order to "save" it from communists. If anyone really wanted to protect the "sanctity" of marriage they'd abolish reality television.
2. We have to protect our kids. Reform the public school system then so that not quite so many students in our country are at risk due to death by homework. I really don't see what this has to do with marriage so I won't go farther into it.
3. If you're against Prop 8 then you're anti-family. No, I'm pro-marriage which makes me pro-family. Claiming to be pro-marriage while calling for the abolition of marriage would be like claiming to be pro-life while supporting the death penalty. Isn't language interesting?
4. You must be gay. For supporting civil rights? Sure, why not. Since I thought that Brown v. Board was a good idea, you can look at my photograph in the "personal pics" thread or my YouTube account and conclude that I must be black too.
5. If we allow homosexuals to marry, then people will start marrying animals. That would require full consent from both the person and the animal, which I don't see happening.
6. (same argument)......marrying children. Allowing citizens to marry before they're even allowed to VOTE? Hah!
7. It'll lead to legalization of prostitution. Yet another straw-man fallacy but I figured might as well address it since it's popped up a lot. If two complete strangers somewhere beyond my means of perception are having sex I don't care. Honestly. I don't spend all my time thinking about people having sex. Apparently this is a really revolutionary concept to many people.
8. This religious text I've got here says... Something that has less legal value than the libertarian principles the United States was founded on.
9. Gays can't reproduce. I assume that the people arguing this mean that reproduction can't happen by means of same-sex copulation. Why is this an issue either? We're not exactly underpopulated.
10. It's unnatural. No, homosexual is "unusual", and even that word is a matter of opinion. "Unnatural" in the negative connotation made here would be something that actually has a history of negative impacts on the environment, like hatred or nuclear fallout.

That about covers everything as far as I can tell. As with the issue of legalizing drugs, I doubt there's even a single strong point out there that hasn't been made dozens of times before and that hasn't been torn apart by thousands of different people. It's a case of clear right and wrong; there is no controversy or difficulty or matter of debate. Not that I'm closed-minded; if there're any arguments that could truly make me stop and rethink my feelings on California's brainless step backward, I'd love to see them.
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The statement below this one is false.
The statement above this one is true.
This statement is false.

[Spikey]

Hyraxylos the thing is i would be classed as a gay but i think the proposition to ban gay marrige is wrong its like a male and a female saying that they love each other and yet what if the law said they can't be married? them they would be heart broken you act like gay people are slaves like black people and that they have no civil rights...

My two cents

[Ragnarok]

[Shiari]

I would also like to add this to the absurdity of the "they can't reproduce" argument.

The majority of *straight* women my age (20s) do NOT want to have children ever. My sister-in-law had herself sterilised, and I support her in every way. There are too many of us already.

And what people don't see due to the secret fear that gay people are also paedophiles or that being gay is a "trained" condition... all those gay couples could adopt, and ease the lives of so many children. Most of the homosexuals I know *want* kids.

For sanctity of marriage... if you REALLY want to preserve it, outlaw divorce. We have a 50% divorce rate. Maybe if people realised that marriage was permanent except in say, extreme cases such as abuse, and infidelity was a punishable crime, fewer people would get married at the drop of a hat.

[Johnny Boy]

I was having roughly the same conversation at school recently, the guy I was talking to was very closed minded, and VERY Catholic.
He brought up that little argument that it was unnatural, so I said,
“Do you drive a car?” (he was 18 and I knew for a fact that he owned a car.)
“yeah…”
“Is that the natural way to get around?”
“uhh…”
“nope, it isn’t, the natural way to get around is to walk.”
“well….the bible says its wrong.”
“so? The bible also says that you should do unto others as you would want done unto you, would you like it if people started saying that YOU weren’t allowed to marry?”

As far as I see it, I think that anybody who unnecessarily takes away somebody’s rights, should have there rights taken away.
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