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jaspertjie
Dragonstar
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 91
Location: The Netherlands
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 Posted: Tue 30 Mar 2010 21:54 Post subject: |
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How can you be even sure that all what is written in the Bible isn't just simply corrupted? Maybe all those anti-homosexual thing and stuff are all just written into by some extremist Jew or Christian?
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Tue 30 Mar 2010 21:59 Post subject: Re: Bible |
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| Tentar wrote: |
| If you're gay, you do not contribute society in any way. |
So, the gay professor, the gay police officer, the gay soldier, the gay paramedic, the gay doctor, the gay white-collar worker, the gay secretary, etc, etc, etc... all contribute nothing? While their straight counterparts do?
Wow.
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| And no, you're not born into it. I'll admit, people that are gay are usually turned gay by circumstance. It's not usually a conscious choice made. Usually, gay or bi people have a history of being abused, both verbally, and sexually. |
Wow... again. So much wrong here. First off, yes, it is biological. Homosexual behavior has been documented in many other nonhuman species, which indicates, at the very least, some biological component.
Also, there is zero documented evidence that sexual abuse or anything else is a factor in even a minority of cases, never mind a significant majority.
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| Now it's not love. It's looking for a way to cope with the shit in life you've been given (sorry bout the language.) And the people aren't disgusting, it's what the people DO that's disgusting. And I love how Gays try to say that Christians hate them. No, the Judgmental Christians like Catholics, or Lutherans say are verbally abusive to the gays. |
"Christians don't hate them, just some Christians do."
Stopping right there. No true Scotsman fallacy.
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| I know people that used to be gay, but then they found God, turned down their old partner and ended up getting married and having children. |
And there are people who do the opposite.
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Tentar
Dragonstar
Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 380
Location: In hiding from the human world.
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| Posted: Tue 30 Mar 2010 21:59 Post subject: |
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Because. The Bible was written while homosexuality was still illegal, first off. (Still is in most counties) Second, if it was an extremist, or extremists rather, then there would have been much more on homosexuality. There are only a few verses, and all of those are from God himself. And finally, what is life if you don't have faith? Take away faith, which is only possible because of God, then you have no trust, no love, and no integrity. Only the baser parts of human nature exist, and you get homosexuality.
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Draconis!!! Humans, dragons, a relationship between both if you are a dracomancer. |
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Tentar
Dragonstar
Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 380
Location: In hiding from the human world.
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| Posted: Tue 30 Mar 2010 22:14 Post subject: Re: Bible |
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So, the gay professor, the gay police officer, the gay soldier, the gay paramedic, the gay doctor, the gay white-collar worker, the gay secretary, etc, etc, etc... all contribute nothing? While their straight counterparts do?
Wow. |
First, that was just not specifying enough. I meant they contribute nothing when they have intercourse, and the whole point of intercourse is to have children, it's not there for pleasure, it has pleasure involved, but thats not the sole pupose.
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Wow... again. So much wrong here. First off, yes, it is biological. Homosexual behavior has been documented in many other nonhuman species, which indicates, at the very least, some biological component.
Also, there is zero documented evidence that sexual abuse or anything else is a factor in even a minority of cases, never mind a significant majority. |
Okay you retard, first, you're a moron. Science cannot 100 percent "prove" anything. Most scientists even say that. Second, actually, the vast majority of homosexuals were abused, in some way, and searched for some kind of solace. Now that HAS been proven by interviews. Next animals are completely different you backwoods redneck, they have not conscious thought of, "Hey, I bet this is immoral, but it feels good, so lets keep going!" God I absolutely HATE it when people are so dumb. And you need to stop taking part of a whole thought and making me look like an asshole, because then, YOU end up looking like a moron.
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| "Christians don't hate them, just some Christians do." |
Okay, now you're just grasping for reasons to support an immoral lifestyle, and that's just sad.
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| Stopping right there. No true Scotsman fallacy. |
Mmmkay... By 'True Christians' (you moron) I was talking about christians that DON'T Judge everyone they see. There are very few of those in the world.
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| And there are people who do the opposite. |
That's because they fall into immorality because they fall into hard times, leading them to SOME kind of escape. H-O-M-O-S-E-X-U-A-L-I-T-Y. God, you're dense.
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Tue 30 Mar 2010 22:49 Post subject: |
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I'm always hesitant to flip on mod mode, but...tone down the insults. I'm trying to laugh them off here, but my patience only goes so far. I'm not above using the delete button.
| Tentar wrote: |
| Because. The Bible was written while homosexuality was still illegal, first off. (Still is in most counties) |
Most of what we would call "first world" countries have it completely decriminalized at the very least. Many countries with theocratic systems do ban it, but is that really your ideal government?
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| Second, if it was an extremist, or extremists rather, then there would have been much more on homosexuality. There are only a few verses, and all of those are from God himself. |
Or... from people writing decades later their remembrances of what their religious leader had said.
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| And finally, what is life if you don't have faith? Take away faith, which is only possible because of God, then you have no trust, no love, and no integrity. |
This one is so blatantly false I'm at a loss on how to respond. If you're not a Christian, you can't trust? Can't love? Have no integrity? I'm torn between laughter and being deeply offended.
| Tentar wrote: |
| they contribute nothing when they have intercourse, and the whole point of intercourse is to have children |
A purpose, certainly. But the only one? I disagree. And then we have some trouble with deciding who gets do decide what things are for? You? Me? Someone else?
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| Okay you retard, first, you're a moron. |
Whoo! Straight into ad hominem attacks!
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| Science cannot 100 percent "prove" anything. Most scientists even say that. |
Sure it can. It just depends on what you're asking for proof of. Do black cats exist? Oh, look a black cat. 100% proof. Does hydrogen exist? 100% proof.
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| Second, actually, the vast majority of homosexuals were abused, in some way, and searched for some kind of solace. Now that HAS been proven by interviews. |
People have interviewed the vast majority of gays? Please, show me where these tens of millions of interviews can be found.
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| Next animals are completely different you backwoods redneck, |
More insults! Yay!
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| they have not conscious thought of, "Hey, I bet this is immoral, but it feels good, so lets keep going!" |
And that refutes the fact that there homosexual behavior has been documented in animals...how?
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| God I absolutely HATE it when people are so dumb. And you need to stop taking part of a whole thought and making me look like an asshole, because then, YOU end up looking like a moron. |
And even more insults!
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| Stopping right there. No true Scotsman fallacy. |
Mmmkay... By 'True Christians' (you moron) I was talking about christians that DON'T Judge everyone they see. There are very few of those in the world. |
And even more insults! And it's still a no true Scotsman fallacy. Why do you get to define for the billions of Christians worldwide, what "Christianity" is?
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| That's because they fall into immorality because they fall into hard times, leading them to SOME kind of escape. H-O-M-O-S-E-X-U-A-L-I-T-Y. God, you're dense. |
And even more insults!
And again...evidence for claim?
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To win against an opponent stronger than yourself, you must not be weaker than that opponent. - Takamachi Nanoha |
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jaspertjie
Dragonstar
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 91
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue 30 Mar 2010 23:11 Post subject: |
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And STILL, tentar... You haven't been able to answer my question in any way.
"How can you be even sure that all what is written in the Bible isn't just simply corrupted? Maybe all those anti-homosexual thing and stuff are all just written into by some extremist Jew or Christian?"
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Rayadragon
Shining Dragonstar
Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 264
Location: Somewhere between reality and imagination
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| Posted: Wed 31 Mar 2010 21:12 Post subject: |
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Nor has Tentar or Diamondec (who the question was initially addressed to) answered why some passages (i.e. anti-gay) passages are acceptable while others (i.e. pro-slavery) are not. Or which version of the several avaliable is the correct one to use.
*sighs* Ragnarok already called you to task on this Tentar, but just to reiterate, the constant use of insults to attack your opponent, rather than addressing the topic, only weakens any position you take. You're the one calling Ragnarok a moron, but from where I sit, you're the one who is unable to support your point beyond "the bible says so!," so you shout louder and hurl insults to keep people from seeing that you don't know how to address the questions other debaters pose.
Off topic for the debate, but I concider "retard" to be among the worst insults to hurl. My brother is multi-disabled, and I got to be front and center many times for school bullies to shout this at him, and then trying to explain afterwards how it's not his fault, that it's okay. He can't help the way he is. To hear people using a non-treatable disorder as an insult just disgusts me. I try not to let it bother me much, since most people use it in jest and not for true injury. Based on the rest of your post though, you're using it in the most hurtful, vile way possible.
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| I meant they contribute nothing when they have intercourse, and the whole point of intercourse is to have children, it's not there for pleasure, it has pleasure involved, but thats not the sole pupose. |
This is generally a bad argument to use. There are many heterosexual people who are unable to have children for a variety of reasons. Unless you suggest that they should also stop having sex, then the argument is moot.
There are also lot of other activities which serve dual purposes. Clothing is just meant to cover us from the elements, so therefore, it must be foolish to make them astetically pleasing. Food is just for nourishing our bodies, therefore, it must be foolish to want it to taste good, let alone want to crave unhealthy treats such as potato chips or ice cream. Sleep is meant to help us refresh our bodies, therefore, it must be foolish to want to have a nice bed with clean sheets. The same argument you're using for the non-contribution of homosexual intercourse, that the pleasure is meaningless compared to the biological function, is applied equally as well here. Just because we derive pleasure from eating and sleeping, it doesn't mean we have to abandon that pleasure for the pure function.
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| God I absolutely HATE it when people are so dumb. |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think you were suppost to take the Lord's name in vain?
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| "Christians don't hate them, just some Christians do." |
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Okay, now you're just grasping for reasons to support an immoral lifestyle, and that's just sad....Mmmkay... By 'True Christians' (you moron) I was talking about christians that DON'T Judge everyone they see. There are very few of those in the world.
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I second Ragnarok's question, how is it that you've met all the Christians worldwide? Are you including just your branch or all the offshoot denominations as well?
I also can't help but point out the irony of your second to last statment, "... christians that DON'T Judge everyone they see." Yet by calling all gays immoral, without purpose, and lacking the "true path" (and yes, I know you didn't use those exact phrases, but that's certainly what you're implying) you are in fact judging those people who you have not seen. Does this mean you're not a true christian?
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| Take away faith, which is only possible because of God, then you have no trust, no love, and no integrity. Only the baser parts of human nature exist, and you get homosexuality. |
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| This one is so blatantly false I'm at a loss on how to respond. If you're not a Christian, you can't trust? Can't love? Have no integrity? I'm torn between laughter and being deeply offended. |
Don't forget the last part of that phrase, Ragnarok. Anyone who's not a Christian must also clearly be gay, since we can't help ourselves out of our baser parts. Seeing as how I haven't concidered myself to be Christian for many years, and have somehow remained heterosexual, there must be something wrong with me.
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| That's because they fall into immorality because they fall into hard times, leading them to SOME kind of escape. H-O-M-O-S-E-X-U-A-L-I-T-Y. God, you're dense. |
At the moment, I'm unemployed in a field I thought it was almost impossible to be unemployed in, applying to jobs left and right with barely a nibble, living at home with my wonderful, still heterosexual but non-practicing christian parents because I have no income, and feel about as useful as a doorstop. You could say I'm in some hard times. I'm now doubly bound for becoming homosexual, and yet I somehow stay heterosexual. Amazing isn't it (/sarcasm).
Yes, I'm using a lot of sarcasm in my post. It's an unfortunate side effect of reading Tentar's response posts and I find myself unable to help myself (must be those baser parts kicking in). The core of it doesn't change though. The constant use of insults only hurts any arguments you try to make. Once you strip out the insults, there's little backing to your arguments. I don't agree with your stance, but I would almost respect you more if you just stated that "Homosexuality is against my spiritual beliefs" and stopped there.
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"Do on to others as you would have others do on to you." |
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Solid
Dragonstar
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 969
Location: The other side of somewhere.
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| Posted: Wed 31 Mar 2010 22:21 Post subject: Re: Bible |
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Now, Hey uh Tentar? Friend? Dude? Homie? Dawg? Ma brother? I'd like to tackle a few things with you.
First off is, you say sex is just for making babies. This horrible untrue. Sex feels good and causes no real harm, unless like all good things taken to the extreme. It helps with stress and so on. Anyone who has had sex will easily tell you this. Even asides the pleasure, you can show some one your love very very easily.
And like Raya has said, Soda pop tastes good but HELL it doesn't benefit me! So I'll stop, and video games to! I'll have to stop that, and what TV? Internet? I'll just eat vitamins and drink water move to Amish country and work in a mill for the rest of my life because none of the stuff I do now is at all right and just. *sarcasm*
I also know a friend who is gay, she is living happily with her girlfriend, she is also a US Air Force member, she is solider of America and has to deal with intolerant bull from people in my town just because of her sexuality.
She did not at all have an abusive life. Her father and mother support her and her girlfriend even though they don't agree with it.
Next off, you claim gay do not benefit the world. So if there is a man out there, who HAS wonderfully amazingly brilliant mind, a mind that can cure cancer maybe, but likes to be with other men, his does not benefit the world just because he can produce a child?
What about an woman who is infertile and can't produce a child? Even though she save thousands of lives as hostage instigator, she does benefit the world due to her inability to have a child then?
Finally, what is your problem? Insult after insult, ever hear of a little word of tolerance? You know putting up with another beliefs and ideals even though you don't believe in what they do?
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| Redneck, moron, retard. |
This immaturity is rarely seen on SDB and it's sad to see some drop to such a level of it. Really, Tentar even if you don't agree with what I say, which it's your given right to do so, doesn't mean you should be yelling out insults just because you find it offencive, WARS, have been started this way. Intolerance is by far on of humanity greatest failings.
Next off you claim homosexuality is cause of abuse. Show me evidence of your 'claim'. Because you have actually read through all of this, you see that I do have a friend that debunks it. Besides I've met people abused who still are straight.
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