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Silver Dragon Breath dragon forums
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SkieFireYokana
Shining Dragonstar
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 394
Location: Drowning in the landlocked sea of humanity.
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 Posted: Mon 23 Apr 2007 16:44 Post subject: |
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Well, it's not just Christians that don't like gay people. Lots of people, for some reason, can't stand the idea of two guys or two girls together despite that there is no reason for them not to like it. It doesn't affect any straight people to legalize gay marriage, but it makes life easier for gays. Why not do it if there's no valid, non-religious reason? Because I respect people's beliefs, but just like a gay person doesn't try and make a straight guy gay we shouldn't try to make them straight.
And legalizing it is NOT saying that Christian beliefs are invalid just because they're associated with that religion, it's saying "You're a Christian and you don't believe in gay marriage. These guys are not Christians, and want to get married. You can't stop them, because they don't believe what you do. Muslims don't tell Christians to pray five times a day facing Mecca. Now, if they were Christians, sure, you could preach at them all you wanted, but as it is, IGNORE IT!!!" I think this was here some time ago, but I'll just put it back to remind you: If you don't like gay marriages, don't get one.
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Mon 23 Apr 2007 18:53 Post subject: |
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| Dulon wrote: |
| Alright, lets turn the discrimination around. If a Christian (or Jew or Muslim for that matter) is discriminating against gay people by condemning gay marriage then isn't legalizing it discriminating against Christians? Basically, legalizing gay marriage would be like saying that Christian ideas are not valid simply because they are associated with religion yet at the same time forcing people to accept the belief that gay marriage is okay. Personally I really couldn't care less weather someone is gay or not; its when they try to get other people to accept them for it that I draw the line. |
The main argument that you're making here is that if the government doesn't pass laws that abide by your religion, you are being discriminated against. That, obviously, isn't the case. If you were REQUIRED to do something that violated your religion, then you might be able to claim that your First Amendment right to free exercise is being violated.
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Dulon
Dragonstar
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 30
Location: Hidden away from the world...
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| Posted: Tue 24 Apr 2007 14:04 Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The main argument that you're making here is that if the government doesn't pass laws that abide by your religion, you are being discriminated against. That, obviously, isn't the case. If you were REQUIRED to do something that violated your religion, then you might be able to claim that your First Amendment right to free exercise is being violated. |
But by passing a law for gay marriage it would require Christians to violate their beliefs because it would force them (under pain of violating discrimination laws and the consequences that such violation would bring) to agree that gay marriage was ok, something that Christians obviously don't believe. How is this not a violation of Christian's First Amendment rights?
And just since it was brought up...
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| Muslims don't tell Christians to pray five times a day facing Mecca. |
Actually they do. The whole reason for the war right now is because the Koran teaches that all non-Muslims are to be converted or killed and Islam promoted as the only true religion. But thats a debate for another topic...
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Tue 24 Apr 2007 14:42 Post subject: |
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| Dulon wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The main argument that you're making here is that if the government doesn't pass laws that abide by your religion, you are being discriminated against. That, obviously, isn't the case. If you were REQUIRED to do something that violated your religion, then you might be able to claim that your First Amendment right to free exercise is being violated. |
But by passing a law for gay marriage it would require Christians to violate their beliefs because it would force them (under pain of violating discrimination laws and the consequences that such violation would bring) to agree that gay marriage was ok, something that Christians obviously don't believe. How is this not a violation of Christian's First Amendment rights? |
You're free to disagree with it as much as you like, as publicly as you like (within legal limits, of course), whenever you like. You're even free to work against it politically. Your right to disagree has not been abridged. Churches will not be forced to perform marriage ceremonies, clergy will not have to sanction them, etc. Besides, there are many millions of Christians across the country who are supportive of allowing same-sex marriage.
However, following nondiscrimination laws is part of what comes with owning a business, or conducting any legal matter. Religious beliefs don't provide an absolute shield against everything you find distasteful. There are even constitutional laws that bar some religious acts altogether. For a few examples, human sacrifice would be forbidden as murder, as would following many of the laws of the Old Testament, ritual drugs are still banned, and discrimination against those with other religions are also banned.
Also, I'd like to ask, would you argue that a white supremacist's inability to get the law to allow discrimination against blacks is a violation of first amendment rights, assuming that this individual, like many others, bases it on religious beliefs? If so, would you then argue that this is an unjustified violation of the First Amendment rights?
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| The whole reason for the war right now is because the Koran teaches that all non-Muslims are to be converted or killed and Islam promoted as the only true religion. |
Deuteronomy 13: 6-10 and Deuteronomy 17:2-7. The Bible doesn't seem to do much better, does it?
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Samariyu
Shining Dragonstar
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 233
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| Posted: Fri 08 Jun 2007 7:57 Post subject: |
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I personally think that gay marriage should be legalized. Because if it wasn't legalized, than we would pretty much be taking away the free will and freedom rights that gays have by saying they're not alowed to get married.
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dragonflame
Dragonstar
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 423
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| Posted: Fri 08 Jun 2007 10:18 Post subject: |
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on the one side: because of my belief I don't like gay marriage
on the other side: I think people should be free to do what they like as long as it doesn't hurt another person in any way. if they're gay and want to marry, I'm not going to stop them
I have someone in my school class who I think of is gay, I have several reasons for thinking that. PM me for the details if you want
(see above) "as long as it doesn't hurt another person in any way" I have something to say with that too: again, PM me for details |
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Fri 08 Jun 2007 12:30 Post subject: |
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| dragonflame wrote: |
on the one side: because of my belief I don't like gay marriage
on the other side: I think people should be free to do what they like as long as it doesn't hurt another person in any way. if they're gay and want to marry, I'm not going to stop them |
So, of the two, which is the dominant position?
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| I have someone in my school class who I think of is gay, I have several reasons for thinking that. PM me for the details if you want |
I don't see why that is at all relevant.
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| (see above) "as long as it doesn't hurt another person in any way" I have something to say with that too: again, PM me for details |
Assuming you can say it and still be within the forum's posting rules, I don't see why you can't just say it.
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dragonflame
Dragonstar
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 423
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| Posted: Fri 08 Jun 2007 12:47 Post subject: |
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| they're almost equal, but the second is a bit more dominant |
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