Wing claw

[Vanodalv]

One of the things i have been wondering about is the "wing claw" on dragons. I often see pictures of dragons with this little (thumb) claw on their wings.Almost every artist seems to draw it and lots of dragonkin claim to have such a wingclaw. But..did anyone every wondered what it is for!? To me such a claw seems not logical. Because it's useless. Creatures like bats,pterodactyls and wyverns need those claw(s) to move around on the ground because they dont have front legs. But western dragons already have 4 strong "legs"...so why need that little claw? A t-rex used it little claws to get up or maybe to grip his prey a little (when it was already dead). But a western dragon sure doesn't need a little claw to do get up or to grip prey. The claw doesn't seem really strong also. After all it are still wings, not arms. So i don't think a dragon could really grip anything with it. I heard some people say that dragons used it to climb obstacles. But why climb if you can fly? And that little claw isn't gonne help much anyways.
This makes me wonder if dragons really had such a claw. Or that this claw is nothing more than something that sprouted from the imagination of an
artist? Or maybe it's because they used "bat wings" to discribe the wings of a dragon. And of course bats do have such a claw. My draconic form doesn't have such a claw, i believe. So...What are your views on this?

[Zyleeth]

Just take a gander at your own hand, and you will discover why most artist draw an extra claw on dragons. It is actually a thumb, and you will notice that on your hand, it is much smaller than your other fingers. If in fact, the hand actually grew into a wing, it is doubtful that the thumb would grow as long as the others simply because of its small size.

I personally can't see why an arm would actually grow into the wings... That would mean that the early dragons of the species would have to have two sets of forelimbs, since western dragons are six-limbed. But that's a different debate.

[Raven]

[DarkDragon]

You could do some serious damage with those things in close quarters..
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May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows you're dead.
-An Irish toast

[Zyleeth]

[Vanodalv]

It just seems a bit idiotic to use such a claw when you already have: 4 paws with sharp claws, a mounth full of sharp teeth, a fire breathin/spitting/what ever ability (?), horns and spines, brains (XP).....Dragons are already looking like battle tanks.
And wings are ment to fly...not to attack or what ever. I also think it would be hard to move your whole wing like that (to attack for example). I said wings arent arms, because they are simply much weaker and less err.."mobile" (don't know the word X_x; ). That's because they are ment to fly. Just look at bird and bat wings.Even insect wings. Wings simply can't "bend" that way. And wings are really fragile. It would also be stupid to wack around with your wings (what even isn't possible because the way western dragons are build) when you got strong paws. Because when your wings are damaged you can't even fly away from a fight.
Now on evolution:
Birds evolved from dinosaurs. And yes the most primitive birds had a wing claw! I believe there is still a bird in South America that has a little claw. But these birds couldn't really fly. They "floated". The first birds used their wing claw to climb up trees. Than they would be able to float to another tree or to float towards their prey (insects and stuff).But their wings evolved further and they gained the ability to really fly. The wing claw became useless (they didn't need to climb anymore) and dissapeared (like we all know).
If we compare this to dragons:
Does this mean dragons with wingclaws are still very primitive and maybe couldn't really fly?
Also, the bird needed the claw to climb because they don't have "hands". But western dragons do. You see i think the problem is "handyness". Maybe most people think dragons had such claws because they are handy when they would be needed. Oh theres a rock! Oh hey i can use my wings to help me climb it!....But that is not how nature works. Maybe it would be handy for a bird to still have a claw. Than it could climb if needed. But now it doesn't have one anymore. Why? because it can fly. It don't think humans will get tentacles in the future. We already got arms, however tentacles would be handy sometimes. (this is a ridiculous example, but i just try to state my point). The same counts for the human taill. Sure i could think of some handy stuff to do with a taill. But in the end a taill would more annoying (because we wouldn't need it anymore to keep balance.) than helpfull. So nature said: cut it. In the end dragons probably would have lost that claw because it isn't usefull enough.
This also makes me wonder where western dragons evolved from. From wyverns, drakes or something else? Or did drakes evolve to wyverns and western dragons? Just like birds the drakes front legs could have evolved to wings and so evolved to a wyvern. Wyverns would have kept their wing claws like bats. But for western dragons it's more complicated.
And yes i'm an "artist" too (really). I also give my dragons a little claw because it looks good. But that doesn't mean it's true. Anyways these are just my views...I've been nagging again, that's clear.

[Zyleeth]

Like I had already mentioned: it is not incorrect to exclude the wing thumb from the draconic form. Who here said that dragons aren't versatile enough?

[Azabel]

Well, from what I know of my Dragon, I am very certain that she had/has a large curved claw at the very tip of the first bend in each wing. I have very clear images of what my Dragon should look like, so, to me, to say that the wing claw didn't actually exist sounds like a lot of rubbish. I mean, I've been drawing that wing claw before I ever even saw other artists' depictions, starting at a very young age.

There is one instance that seems very much like a memory to me, but I can't be sure (I'm still trying to figure things out). In any case, my Dragon, when she lived however long ago, clung to the wall of an enormous cliff, each hand and foot grasping the rock. With her wings folded, the wing claws stick out at the jointed ends like a hook at the end of a thick limb. Hooking that into the cliff face for perch, she could then reach up with a hand to grip the rock in order to pull herself up further. That's where the "memory" stops. I don't know if she pushes off from the wall in order to fly away, but she can fly, that I am sure of. Because of how short this "memory" is, it never felt important enough to share until I read this topic. I guess that every bit of knowledge eventually does become useful.

In any case, that particular claw is much stronger than one might believe. It is attached to tough tendons and muscles.

*shrugs* That's all I can say. Whatever past I had with my Dragon, it has only ever very slowly revealed itself to me over the years. This past year, things have finally begun to clarify themselves, but too much is still in the dark.
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~Azabel