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ZucaTreangeli
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Netherlands
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 Posted: Sat 14 Apr 2007 11:42 Post subject: Intelligent design vs evolution. |
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I want to set up a small debate, this is the debate forum after all, and I would like to represent the evolution side of this debate and hopefully someone will represent the Intelligent design side of the debate.
I would like it to be on a scientific level, or atleast an understanding that the discussed topics are scientific, the theory of evolution and intelligent design say they uphold their ideas with scientific studies and proof.
Is anyone up for this kind of debate ??
Let it be clear that this is not a flaming game, neither is this a debate meant to attack any religions.
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Ragnarok
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| Posted: Sat 14 Apr 2007 15:27 Post subject: Re: Intelligent design vs evolution. |
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| ZucaTreangeli wrote: |
| I would like it to be on a scientific level, or atleast an understanding that the discussed topics are scientific, the theory of evolution and intelligent design say they uphold their ideas with scientific studies and proof. |
I'll take the first shot, but it might be a bit of a thread-killer. 
All evidence that we have currently points toward evolution. It is a well-tested theory which has been shown to accurately predict matters concerning the evolution of species, both on the macroevolutionary scale, and the microevolutionary scale.
Intelligent design is a hypothesis which attempts to explain the same events as evolution, but has never had a test end in its favor. Further, one of its largest supporters, Michael Behe, admitted, in the Dover ID trial, that "his definition of [scientific] “theory” was so broad it would also include astrology." (source).
Going back a half step, to the testing of ID, its main premise is the idea of "irreducible complexity," i.e. that some biological structures are so complex that the removal of any single part would cause the whole structure to become nonfunctional. The two biological systems most commonly used to illustrate this point are the bacterial flagellum (the "tail" that you see on bacteria, which help them move), and blood's ability to clot. Irreducible complexity would state that if any single part were removed, there would be nothing functional remaining. However, after being studied, almost every single part of the flagellum has a direct function in normal cell operations, meaning that the system was far from irreducibly complex. The same goes for blood clotting, in that there are some animals who lack some clotting proteins found in humans, and yet have blood that clots just fine.
Third, in the same trial in Dover, the end result was that, after exhaustive testimony from experts across the field, the judge ruled that Intelligent Design was "a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory" (source).
From this, it seems clear that the theory of evolution is a well-established, thoroughly tested, and highly accurate theory, while intelligent design, simply, is not.
Also, as a side note to this discussion, there is one point regarding both evolution and the theory of evolution that is commonly overlooked, either accidentally, or intentionally. There is no real scientific debate over the fact of evolution, i.e. that evolution can and does occur. There is debate, however, over the theory of evolution, which explains how and why evolution occurs. More simply, the theory of evolution explains the mechanisms behind the fact of evolution, just like how the theory of gravity explains the mechanisms behind the fact of gravity.
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ZucaTreangeli
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| Posted: Sat 14 Apr 2007 21:32 Post subject: |
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Rawr, thats not fair, I was hoping for someone who was pro-intelligent design, you gave the points I was hoping for giving.. But yeah, that does kill the thread because I have no means of defending intelligent design :P
This text looks like you got it straight from a lecture though *grins* No offence.
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Ragnarok
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr 2007 0:51 Post subject: |
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| ZucaTreangeli wrote: |
| Rawr, thats not fair, I was hoping for someone who was pro-intelligent design, you gave the points I was hoping for giving.. But yeah, that does kill the thread because I have no means of defending intelligent design :P |
Well, what did you expect me to do when I saw this thread?
| Quote: |
| This text looks like you got it straight from a lecture though *grins* No offence. |
Actually, seeing as how it's all original work, and not borrowing more than the basic information from other sources, I'll take that as a compliment.
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ZucaTreangeli
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr 2007 5:27 Post subject: |
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You should look up intelligent design on youtube, the first hit is a lecture by Ken Miller..
Atleast I found it very interesting to watch and listen to ^^.
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Dulon
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| Posted: Mon 23 Apr 2007 15:25 Post subject: |
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I don't have time to post much of an argument right now, but I'll see if I can put something together for the ID side if I get some free time. Also, could we clarify what kind of evolution we're talking about here; is it the man came from apes theory or the natural selection one, or maybe some other one that I don't know about?
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Ragnarok
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| Posted: Mon 23 Apr 2007 18:27 Post subject: |
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| Dulon wrote: |
| Also, could we clarify what kind of evolution we're talking about here; is it the man came from apes theory or the natural selection one, or maybe some other one that I don't know about? |
They're the same thing.
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ZucaTreangeli
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Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon 23 Apr 2007 20:41 Post subject: |
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| Dulon wrote: |
| I don't have time to post much of an argument right now, but I'll see if I can put something together for the ID side if I get some free time. Also, could we clarify what kind of evolution we're talking about here; is it the man came from apes theory or the natural selection one, or maybe some other one that I don't know about? |
Or technically actually, man shares a common ancestor with the apes. its a result of evolution.
Evolution is a combination of genetic change in a species population and natural selection that allows the best suitable creatures to survive. And thus evolve in a way
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