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Silver Dragon Breath dragon forums
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Miru
Dragonstar
Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 450
Location: In my head, composing melodies of magic.
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 Posted: Tue 11 Mar 2008 23:03 Post subject: |
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My definition of murder. I'm talking about one person killing another person w/o mitigating circmstances.
Second I know that castration is illegal under the us constitution, but I still believe it should be done to rapists.
The definition of "right" is a very simple thing, abide by the law.Period.
You say I shout "Kill the Killers" But you have not given me a reason why they should be allowed to live.
You apparently are saying that castration is a "cruel and unusual" punishment, but I say if you rape you dont deserve to have your genitals. Thats just personally my belief.
You beleive that they should have life in prison?Did you know that 80% of convicted murderers get out of jail within their lifetimes and what do they do then? Kill more people. So I say just get rid of the problem.
Inmates live in luxury, they are given tv, game rooms sports, amenities that they shouldnt have.
As scum,they should be treated as such.
As for what makes something eradicatable,there is a decisive boundary. A truly horrible crime such as murder should be eradicated along with the people who practice it.
My point about WWII wasnt quite as irrelavent as you think. I was referring to you from a standpoint of what you refer to as "morally correct."
While they may have good intentions,It just cant work every time. This is one of those cases.
You say that according to the record dp states have a higher crime rate.
This is only semi true. You are right that we have more total crime.
But crimes that warrant the dp are far less in dp states then in others.
Anything else?
_________________
Farewell my shadow, you who walk the path I chose not to follow, Yet I do not regret my choice. I will continue to choose this path. |
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Wed 12 Mar 2008 0:06 Post subject: |
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| Miru wrote: |
| My definition of murder. I'm talking about one person killing another person w/o mitigating circmstances. |
So it's similar to the legal definition?
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| The definition of "right" is a very simple thing, abide by the law.Period. |
What about in places where laws are different? Different countries, or even states in some cases, have different penalties (or even no penalties) for actions which are illegal in others. Is "right" no more than following the laws of whatever country you are in? Does what is "right" change as you move from place to place?
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| You say I shout "Kill the Killers" But you have not given me a reason why they should be allowed to live. |
One: there is a danger of executing innocent people.
Two: there is no benefit whatsoever (other than a fiscal one, which is offset by objection #1) from executing prisoners.
Three: A life sentence is as effective as the death penalty if the goal is to keep them out of society.
Four: Unlike other penalties, executions are non-reversible.
Your turn. Without using an appeal to emotion, why should executions occur?
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| You apparently are saying that castration is a "cruel and unusual" punishment, but I say if you rape you dont deserve to have your genitals. Thats just personally my belief. |
Why?
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| You beleive that they should have life in prison?Did you know that 80% of convicted murderers get out of jail within their lifetimes and what do they do then? Kill more people. So I say just get rid of the problem. |
You can prove that that the vast majority of murderers who have been released from prison killed again? Source and documentation, please.
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| Inmates live in luxury, they are given tv, game rooms sports, amenities that they shouldnt have. |
Take it up here.
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| As scum,they should be treated as such. |
Define scum. Also, who gets to set the definition? How should it be decided?
ETA: Looking at it again, I also notice that now you classify all inmates as scum. Is that really what you meant? And also, in your opinion, how should "scum" be treated?
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| As for what makes something eradicatable,there is a decisive boundary. A truly horrible crime such as murder should be eradicated along with the people who practice it. |
You're not setting the boundary, however. What, exactly, constitutes this decisive boundary?
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My point about WWII wasnt quite as irrelavent as you think. I was referring to you from a standpoint of what you refer to as "morally correct."
While they may have good intentions,It just cant work every time. This is one of those cases. |
How does loss of life on the battlefield equate in any way to civilian justice systems?
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You say that according to the record dp states have a higher crime rate.
This is only semi true. You are right that we have more total crime.
But crimes that warrant the dp are far less in dp states then in others.
Anything else? |
Read my post again. That's not what I said.
You've also left most of the questions that I asked at the bottom of the second page unanswered. Please address those as well.
_________________
To win against an opponent stronger than yourself, you must not be weaker than that opponent. - Takamachi Nanoha
Last edited by Ragnarok on Sat 15 Mar 2008 19:49; edited 1 time in total |
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Hyraxylos
Shining Dragonstar
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 805
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Sat 15 Mar 2008 8:56 Post subject: |
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| Miru wrote: |
Inmates live in luxury, they are given tv, game rooms sports, amenities that they shouldnt have.
As scum,they should be treated as such.
As for what makes something eradicatable,there is a decisive boundary. A truly horrible crime such as murder should be eradicated along with the people who practice it.
My point about WWII wasnt quite as irrelavent as you think. I was referring to you from a standpoint of what you refer to as "morally correct."
While they may have good intentions,It just cant work every time. This is one of those cases.
You say that according to the record dp states have a higher crime rate.
This is only semi true. You are right that we have more total crime.
But crimes that warrant the dp are far less in dp states then in others.
Anything else? |
You start with some logical points here (I do particularly see the danger of prisoners escaping), but the motives behind the argument still hover around hatred and vengeance which damages the appeal of the argument itself. And not morality does not equate automatically to law. There are many laws that can be (and are) immoral, and according to the Declaration of Independence, it is the DUTY of the people to overthrow such rule. Laws must be up for change at any and all times should corruption set in.
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The statement below this one is false.
The statement above this one is true.
This statement is false. |
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Wed 19 Mar 2008 11:12 Post subject: |
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And one more example of why I'm against the death penalty. Things like this happen.
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In a split decision, the Georgia Supreme Court refused Monday to allow a new trial for a man sentenced to death for the 1989 murder of a Savannah police officer, despite recantations from seven of nine witnesses who originally testified against him.
The ruling is a blow to advocates for the convicted man, Troy A. Davis, 39, who had collected affidavits from many of the witnesses who originally testified against him. Many said that their trial testimony had been coerced by investigators who were under pressure to convict someone in the murder of a fellow officer.
In the 4-to-3 decision, the court’s majority wrote that the sworn testimony at the trial was more important than the later recantations, noting that many of the witnesses have simply said they did not feel able to identify the person who shot the officer. |
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To win against an opponent stronger than yourself, you must not be weaker than that opponent. - Takamachi Nanoha |
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Dragoneyes
Dragonstar
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Great Lake State, Michigan,U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 19:20 Post subject: |
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So your telling me executing Ted Bundy was a bad idea? Oh would you like guys like John Gaisey, child mass murderer, to sell paintings to pay for defense?
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Look into the eyes of the dragon and it will reveal your soul.... |
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 20:04 Post subject: |
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| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| So your telling me executing Ted Bundy was a bad idea? |
Yes, because once incarcerated, he is of no risk to the public. Why should he have been executed?
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| Oh would you like guys like John Gaisey, child mass murderer, to sell paintings to pay for defense? |
Why not?
Your examples here give no reason to support the death penalty. Provide as many examples of people who were executed as you like, but that's not a reason to support it. Yes, their actions are, by almost any standard, evil, but still, why should they be executed?
_________________
To win against an opponent stronger than yourself, you must not be weaker than that opponent. - Takamachi Nanoha |
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Dragoneyes
Dragonstar
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Great Lake State, Michigan,U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 20:38 Post subject: |
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I guess you are not cut from the same cloth as most. I would feel paying for someone like them would be prolonging the agony for those who they harmed. I hear a lot of people like you say the same thing but maybe if it happened to you your tune might change. No it has not happened to me but If my son or daughter was killed by either one of those monsters I'd want revenge or retribution. I'd probably pull the switch myself.
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Look into the eyes of the dragon and it will reveal your soul.... |
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 22:31 Post subject: |
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| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| I hear a lot of people like you say the same thing but maybe if it happened to you your tune might change. No it has not happened to me but If my son or daughter was killed by either one of those monsters I'd want revenge or retribution. I'd probably pull the switch myself. |
Revenge and justice are rarely the same thing. If anything like that ever happened to me, I hope that I'd be able to remember that.
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To win against an opponent stronger than yourself, you must not be weaker than that opponent. - Takamachi Nanoha |
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