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Silver Dragon Breath dragon forums
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Hyraxylos
Shining Dragonstar
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 805
Location: Atlanta, GA
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 Posted: Mon 18 Feb 2008 21:23 Post subject: |
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| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| Why not an eye for an eye ? If you kill somebody and you are convicted of it you should pay for it. I've seen it on the T.V. to many times. They kill again in prison. Kill them all. .... |
Do you know what a "slippery slope" is? Revenge is just that, and executing someone just to satisfy the bloodlust of someone else is not of legal interest to the law of anyone in a democracy, particularly when the criminal might be innocent.
| Ragnarok wrote: |
| I asked a question regarding that at the top of my post. However, if your only argument is that the death penalty saves money, you have no argument. |
That IS the only argument that I personally have for the death penalty. Beyond that, I don't like it either. There's too much risk of someone turning out to have been innocent.
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Dragoneyes
Dragonstar
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Great Lake State, Michigan,U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon 18 Feb 2008 23:42 Post subject: |
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The percentage of someone being innocent in a murder is slim but it happens. Most of these inmates that are on Death Row have multiple murders in and out of prison. If they value life so little that they need to kill, than it should be an eye for an eye. It always seems that we look at the murderer and feel sorry for them but what of the victims family? If they feel the person should be executed than why not grant them their wish... I would love to see a person that feels against the death penalty explain to the child that the person that murdered their father or mother should be allowed to live.
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Tue 19 Feb 2008 0:02 Post subject: |
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| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| The percentage of someone being innocent in a murder is slim but it happens. Most of these inmates that are on Death Row have multiple murders in and out of prison. |
And...what? If they had life in prison, that'd be the end of it as well.
| Quote: |
| If they value life so little that they need to kill, than it should be an eye for an eye. |
I notice that you did not answer the question that I posed the last time you said this. Please do.
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| t always seems that we look at the murderer and feel sorry for them but what of the victims family? |
Are you trying to say that opposing the death penalty and feeling sorry for the victims are mutually exclusive?
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| If they feel the person should be executed than why not grant them their wish... |
Because revenge is a poor substitute for justice.
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| I would love to see a person that feels against the death penalty explain to the child that the person that murdered their father or mother should be allowed to live. |
"Would you like to be as bad as that person?"
And I'm finding it quite interesting that all of these arguments are emotion-based, as opposed to having any actual substance behind it.
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Hyraxylos
Shining Dragonstar
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 805
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Tue 19 Feb 2008 9:06 Post subject: |
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| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| The percentage of someone being innocent in a murder is slim but it happens. Most of these inmates that are on Death Row have multiple murders in and out of prison. If they value life so little that they need to kill, than it should be an eye for an eye. It always seems that we look at the murderer and feel sorry for them but what of the victims family? If they feel the person should be executed than why not grant them their wish... I would love to see a person that feels against the death penalty explain to the child that the person that murdered their father or mother should be allowed to live. |
You didn't really answer my question either.
| Quote: |
| Do you know what a "slippery slope" is? |
Again, the "wish" that these grieving families have is a bloodlust out of hatred, and hatred of a living consciousness is never justifiable. Not by the law, and not by logic either. Maybe executing a criminal out of fear that prison won't stop them from escaping somehow and committing murder again would have been a better defense, but that wasn't used here and it's too flimsy anyway.
| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| The percentage of someone being innocent in a murder is slim |
That's too much chance. It needs to be at 0% and not a fraction of a percent higher. Executing someone who was innocent is exactly the same thing as murder, but it's even worse than that because it's LEGALIZED murder, and according to the law it is officially preferable to let a guilty person go free than to condemn an innocent with an irreversable punishment.
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Miru
Dragonstar
Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 450
Location: In my head, composing melodies of magic.
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| Posted: Tue 19 Feb 2008 11:36 Post subject: |
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I say this and i say it as a fact!
The death penalty should be enforced because why should the scum who murder and rape be allowed to live. I say people who kill should be killed. And i say people who rape should be castrated.
Also about the prison where our soldiers were embarrasing the pow's.
I say they had every right to. can you imagine what the enemy is doing to our pow's.
All this and more I believe.
War is supposed to be a horrible bloody thing that gets done and over with.
This petty way we fight wars today only drags them out and causes more deaths.OUR deaths might I add,not the enemy's.
I am telling you all people who are scum should not be allowed to live.
PERIOD.
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DragonMancer
Dragonstar
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 1599
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Tue 19 Feb 2008 11:49 Post subject: |
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Im afraid that i do not agree with you on the whole pow thing.
But on other matters, here are my views.
You murder: you should be put to death.
You rape (and this goes for any serious crimes of sexual harrasment): you get given to labs for experimentation (and don't get let out until you die)
You thieve: you have your hand cut off.
With the thieve thing you still have to serve your time in prison.
These are just my views on the whole thing.
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Tue 19 Feb 2008 15:42 Post subject: |
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| Miru wrote: |
| I say this and i say it as a fact! |
Regardless how you think you're saying it, you're saying it as opinion.
| Quote: |
| The death penalty should be enforced because why should the scum who murder and rape be allowed to live. I say people who kill should be killed. And i say people who rape should be castrated. |
Can you offer something other than a desire for revenge as justification?
| Quote: |
Also about the prison where our soldiers were embarrasing the pow's.
I say they had every right to. can you imagine what the enemy is doing to our pow's. |
So because they may mistreat our guys, we'll show them how much better we are by doing the same to theirs?
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| War is supposed to be a horrible bloody thing that gets done and over with. |
Um...okay.
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| This petty way we fight wars today only drags them out and causes more deaths.OUR deaths might I add,not the enemy's. |
Trying to minimize civilian casualties, maintain order, and train locals to fight an insurgency is petty? What, then, do you suggest? Wiping everything out?
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I am telling you all people who are scum should not be allowed to live.
PERIOD. |
Define "scum".
| DragonMancer wrote: |
| You murder: you should be put to death. |
Why not life in prison?
| Quote: |
| You rape (and this goes for any serious crimes of sexual harrasment): you get given to labs for experimentation (and don't get let out until you die) |
Define "serious crimes of sexual harassment." Then explain why you think turning them into lab rats is ethical.
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| You thieve: you have your hand cut off. |
Under all circumstances?
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| With the thieve thing you still have to serve your time in prison. |
Sure, why stop with mutilation?
To both: I'd also like to ask a question for clarification. When you say murder, is that in the lay sense to refer simply to a homicide, or murder in the legal sense?
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Hyraxylos
Shining Dragonstar
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 805
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Tue 19 Feb 2008 18:34 Post subject: |
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Dang. Ragnarok beat me to it...  Bah, I'll say my piece anyway.
Miru, you're not taking the issue seriously; you're just speaking out of hate and as I've said before hatred of a living thing is never justifiable under any condition. It's illogical, acting on it doesn't bring any sense of satisfaction or accomplishment, and you don't even address the issue of an innocent person being executed by the government.
DragonMancer, we do not live in the Middle East. We live in the United States and I've will now have said for the third time that the purpose of punishing criminals is not revenge. It's to prevent them from doing it again and to keep the public safe.
Overall I must say I'm pretty disappointed in the arguments presented here. I felt that Ramen brought up a really good point with the issue of money (let's face facts; it's not a pleasant thing to swallow but it really IS the main problem here!), but beyond that there doesn't seem to be much intelligent debate or maturity here. By contrast I have yet to see Ragnarok say anything even remotely disgusting or barbaric on our side. Hate can never stand up against logic, and I find it rather depressing that anyone arguing for the death penalty would choose to attempt to portray hatred as a moral highground.
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