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Dragoneyes
Dragonstar
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Great Lake State, Michigan,U.S.A.
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 Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 7:09 Post subject: |
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| There's no woman as strong as any given man in the military? If strength is an issue, why not make that the test, instead of gender? |
They have fitness & strength tests but the requirements are different for each gender. But head to head women are not able to due hand to hand with a man and win unless they had martial arts training...
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| So because men have poor impulse control (something which I simply don't buy), women shouldn't be allowed? |
Speaking as a man, I would say I would probably look out for the female more but in the bigger picture I probably would take more chances to save her than I would for a man. Sounds stupid but I think most men would do the same.
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| Look at the way battles are done these days. What field? Operating out of bases all the time? |
Obviously, you have never been in the military, sometimes we would spend weeks in the field and only see a base camp once in a month. I can remember showering out of my helmet a time or to. Vietnam jungles are nasty and dirty. Jungle rot was massive.
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| Foxholes went out sometime in WWII. And honestly, speaking as a civilian, I'd rather have soldiers who actually thought about what they were shooting instead of spraying bullets everywhere. |
Sorry again to burst your extensive experince about war but we did dig a lot of foxholes in Vietnam and they dug quite a few in Iraq when they would stop and set up a base camp.
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Look into the eyes of the dragon and it will reveal your soul.... |
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 10:31 Post subject: |
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| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| They have fitness & strength tests but the requirements are different for each gender. |
So make them the same. Problem solved.
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| But head to head women are not able to due hand to hand with a man and win unless they had martial arts training... |
So train them. Isn't that something that the military's supposed to do anyway? Not to mention, of course, that I know of many women who could hold their own against men.
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| Speaking as a man, I would say I would probably look out for the female more but in the bigger picture I probably would take more chances to save her than I would for a man. Sounds stupid but I think most men would do the same. |
I wouldn't.
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| Obviously, you have never been in the military, |
Indeed.
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| sometimes we would spend weeks in the field and only see a base camp once in a month. I can remember showering out of my helmet a time or to. Vietnam jungles are nasty and dirty. Jungle rot was massive. |
Vietnam war? I was talking more about what the US is engaged in right now, i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan. I've heard a lot about them operating out of bases, but can't remember the last time I heard about longer operations.
Back to the original point, however, about periods rendering them unfit for deployment, there are also drugs which can suppress menstruation.
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| Sorry again to burst your extensive experince about war but we did dig a lot of foxholes in Vietnam and they dug quite a few in Iraq when they would stop and set up a base camp. |
Really? I would have thought that the advent of the airplane and armor would have rendered foxholes ineffective. In any case, you didn't answer the main part of my objection here.
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To win against an opponent stronger than yourself, you must not be weaker than that opponent. - Takamachi Nanoha |
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Dragoneyes
Dragonstar
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Great Lake State, Michigan,U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 18:14 Post subject: |
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[quote="Ragnarok"]
| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| They have fitness & strength tests but the requirements are different for each gender. |
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| So make them the same. Problem solved. |
There would be a lot less women in the military if that was implemented.
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| But head to head women are not able to due hand to hand with a man and win unless they had martial arts training... |
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| So train them. Isn't that something that the military's supposed to do anyway? Not to mention, of course, that I know of many women who could hold their own against men. |
The cost would be more than it was worth. They have already shortened boot camp up so it would be unlikely they would spend that extra money. They would rather buy a tank..
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| Speaking as a man, I would say I would probably look out for the female more but in the bigger picture I probably would take more chances to save her than I would for a man. Sounds stupid but I think most men would do the same. |
What? your either a saint or you don't like women...
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| Obviously, you have never been in the military, |
Indeed.
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| sometimes we would spend weeks in the field and only see a base camp once in a month. I can remember showering out of my helmet a time or to. Vietnam jungles are nasty and dirty. Jungle rot was massive. |
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| Vietnam war? I was talking more about what the US is engaged in right now, i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan. I've heard a lot about them operating out of bases, but can't remember the last time I heard about longer operations. |
Every time that you move forward in battle you have to set up defenses in case of counter attacks...
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| Back to the original point, however, about periods rendering them unfit for deployment, there are also drugs which can suppress menstruation. |
Possibly, but their are other needs women have like staying clean. Viral infections in the crotch area for both men and women are prevalent in extended stays in the field..
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| Sorry again to burst your extensive experince about war but we did dig a lot of foxholes in Vietnam and they dug quite a few in Iraq when they would stop and set up a base camp. |
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| Really? I would have thought that the advent of the airplane and armor would have rendered foxholes ineffective. In any case, you didn't answer the main part of my objection here. |
Yes it is true when you don't have opposition to your advances. But even the best generals know that the best offense is a good defense. As far as answering your question... What was it?
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Look into the eyes of the dragon and it will reveal your soul.... |
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 20:01 Post subject: |
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| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| There would be a lot less women in the military if that was implemented. |
I've no objection to that. If raw strength is a requirement for"front-line" duty (though in places like Iraq, anywhere is a target, so "front-line" means less and less), then make it a requirement. If a female can't meet the standard, so be it.
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| The cost would be more than it was worth. They have already shortened boot camp up so it would be unlikely they would spend that extra money. They would rather buy a tank.. |
Could a woman operate a tank as well as a man?
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| your either a saint or you don't like women... |
Neither. I just don't treat them any differently. Irritates the heck out of my friends half the time, but they deal with it.
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| Every time that you move forward in battle you have to set up defenses in case of counter attacks... |
In a traditional battle, yes, but Iraq and Afghanistan aren't those types of battles. There are American bases in most (all?) cities, where the soldiers stay, then they leave to do a patrol, then they come back. At least, that's the impression that I'm getting from all accounts I've read so far.
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| Possibly, but their are other needs women have like staying clean. |
Men don't?
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| Viral infections in the crotch area for both men and women are prevalent in extended stays in the field.. |
If it's an issue for both genders, of what use is it in a discussion of why women shouldn't be in combat?
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| Sorry again to burst your extensive experince about war but we did dig a lot of foxholes in Vietnam and they dug quite a few in Iraq when they would stop and set up a base camp. |
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| As far as answering your question... What was it? |
| Ragnarok wrote: |
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| 4. Women are less likely to kill first then ask questions later. I wouldn't want that to be on their minds while sharing a fox hole. |
[H]onestly, speaking as a civilian, I'd rather have soldiers who actually thought about what they were shooting instead of spraying bullets everywhere. |
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To win against an opponent stronger than yourself, you must not be weaker than that opponent. - Takamachi Nanoha |
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Dragoneyes
Dragonstar
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Great Lake State, Michigan,U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 21:02 Post subject: |
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| Ragnarok wrote: |
| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| There would be a lot less women in the military if that was implemented. |
I've no objection to that. If raw strength is a requirement for"front-line" duty (though in places like Iraq, anywhere is a target, so "front-line" means less and less), then make it a requirement. If a female can't meet the standard, so be it.
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| Could a woman operate a tank as well as a man? |
Yes tanks are not considered frontline combat.
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| In a traditional battle, yes, but Iraq and Afghanistan aren't those types of battles. There are American bases in most (all?) cities, where the soldiers stay, then they leave to do a patrol, then they come back. At least, that's the impression that I'm getting from all accounts I've read so far. |
This is not considered a war anymore since we occupied their country. It is now a police action. Whole different story now. I personally don't like it reminds me of Vietnam as far as being to political in following rules of engagement.
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| Possibly, but their are other needs women have like staying clean. |
[quote}Men don't? |
Men can stay out longer because of the plumbing. nuff said...
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| If it's an issue for both genders, of what use is it in a discussion of why women shouldn't be in combat? |
It is for health reasons women can contract them easier than men. Especially where there is water crossings.
| Ragnarok wrote: |
| Quote: |
| 4. Women are less likely to kill first then ask questions later. I wouldn't want that to be on their minds while sharing a fox hole. |
[H]onestly, speaking as a civilian, I'd rather have soldiers who actually thought about what they were shooting instead of spraying bullets everywhere. |
Oh that question. Well in combat you don't have a lot of time to think, am I doing the right thing if grenades and rounds hitting in front of you. Most of the time you don't even know what direction they are coming from. Lots of times we had to kill first then ask questions later. You got to understand children were coming up to us with grenades under their arm pits and when you told them to stop the would raise their arms and 2 or 3 of your buddies die.
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Solid
Dragonstar
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 969
Location: The other side of somewhere.
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| Posted: Mon 24 Nov 2008 22:36 Post subject: |
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Everyone seems to think that a soldier is someone holding a gun and wearing Kevlar and camo. Are maybe sneaking behind enemy lines looking for the ammo dump to blow up.
This not true...soldiers work the computers they fly planes and choppers. They fix the gear and the vehicles. They build bridges and they build bases. Some even build schools.
They drive the tanks and work the robots. Decide a strategy, plan attacks and even clean. And yes I suppose some do run around with the machine gun and really scream 'Run rabbits run!' 
I can't see why a woman can't do any of these, with the proper training and the right mind set anyone can do anything. I can't see them being hampered by a smaller body are PMS, if they really wanted to do their job. And most women who join the military and make it though the first phase actually really do want to do their job.
When considering 'front line' combat. There is no such thing anymore. Soliders work from rooftop to rooftop. Clearing and waiting for the next move, then when all is done going back to base. Any woman can do this, some can't yes. But some men can't even get past boot camp.
Anyways my two cents,
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Shiari
Moderator
Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 227
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| Posted: Thu 27 Nov 2008 11:51 Post subject: |
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"Men can stay out longer because of the plumbing. nuff said..."
I cry bullshit to that, and I'm not sorry for it. I can squat and pee just fine thankyou.
And as to lack of aggression? Not true. Some women are timid yes, but so are some men. If you (generic) decide to hurt what I've decided is 'mine' or part of my 'family' I will kill you. Messily, painfully. If I'm not entirely sure of a threat? Shoot the legs while they're at a distance. Incapacitate instead of kill. If they've got grenades then... sucks to be them and pretty much just them.
Something that's important though... WOMEN handle stress and survival situations better than men do on average. We're less likely to have issues. That means less abuse, less torture, and less SHAME on this country.
And as for strength, I am, at 5'6" and very badly out of shape, able to pick up and walk away with about 275lbs. Most of my male friends cannot match me for that. They may be able to do the pickup, but the walking is too hard for them. I'm flexible enough to kick someone in the head who is 6'3". My male friends can't kick high enough to get past my shoulders. And, before my asthma kicked in, I was able to run faster than any of the guys in my PE classes. Even WITH my asthma if I pushed myself I could do a half mile in a little over 3 minutes. Couldn't breathe afterwards though. So imagine what I could have done without being in oxygen debt?
Despite being female, I'm built more like a guy. Broad blunt hand and feet, thick bones. The local marine recruiter wanted me back in 2000 before he learned about my asthma because of my strength when doing wall climbs. He ignored several *men* to talk to me because I surpassed them all.
Even without the asthma I would not join the military though. I will not be sent out to kill people over stupid squabbles, pissing contests, and "you tried to kill my daddy". |
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QueenOfTheShadows
Administrator
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 1609
Location: haunting Bellingham WA
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| Posted: Fri 19 Dec 2008 15:53 Post subject: |
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Well I know places like Isreal and Switzerland Have manditory military enlistment for aldult citizens, between certian ages. I would assume that only thoser who are serously , physcally or mentally unfit for duty would be able to get out of service.
Here in the united states thing are different though and as long as they can physcally do the job there is no reason they shoulden't be allowed to join up. Do'nt lower the eleatist bar in less it becomes nessary to do so to fill a draft... leas thats my oppinion on the matter.
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