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Silver Dragon Breath dragon forums
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Dragoneyes
Dragonstar
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Great Lake State, Michigan,U.S.A.
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 Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 7:15 Post subject: |
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Says who? That was speculation. Where we the only county seeing what Mr. Sadam was doing? I think it came down to religion. They did not want Christians to enter Baghdad... As far as if it would have happened I don't know .
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Brightscales
Shining Dragonstar
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 43
Location: I'm neither here nor there so i must be somewhere
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 8:15 Post subject: |
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There is a conspiracy that says that 9/11 was an inside job. I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if that were true. People keep saying that if we pull out of Iraq then nothing will change. THINGS WILL CHANGE!!! People will stop giving their lives for a ridiculous reason, and we'll stop throwing money away. If we just keep our noses out of every one else's buisness we'll be alright.
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END WAR!!! PEACE NOW!!! |
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 10:33 Post subject: |
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| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| Says who? That was speculation. |
There was only a UN mandate to push him out of Kuwait, which is what all the countries signed on for.
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| Where we the only county seeing what Mr. Sadam was doing? |
Regardless, there was no popular support for overthrowing the government and no plans for what to do afterward. That's a recipe for disaster.
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| I think it came down to religion. They did not want Christians to enter Baghdad... |
More likely, the Arab countries wouldn't want an invasion of one of their own, regardless of who was doing it.
Also, it's rather clear you didn't actually read the rest of the article.
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| As the conflict wound down, we felt a sense of urgency on the part of the coalition Arabs to get it over with and return to normal. This meant quickly withdrawing U.S. forces to an absolute minimum. Earlier there had been some concern in Arab ranks that once they allowed U.S. forces into the Middle East, we would be there to stay. Saddam's propaganda machine fanned these worries. Our prompt withdrawal helped cement our position with our Arab allies, who now trusted us far more than they ever had. We had come to their assistance in their time of need, asked nothing for ourselves, and left again when the job was done. |
What signal would an invasion and occupation have sent? That the US really did want a permanent position in the Middle East, which would have been disastrous for relations with the other Arab countries.
| Brightscales wrote: |
| People keep saying that if we pull out of Iraq then nothing will change. THINGS WILL CHANGE!!! |
Indeed, things will change. The Iraqi government would collapse due to the absence of US forces acting as support, the half-trained police forces will revert to their militias, world opinion of the US will drop even lower, terrorist groups in Iraq will call it their victory for chasing the US out, allowing them to recruit more... I can't think of any good changes, but yes, things will change.
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| People will stop giving their lives for a ridiculous reason, |
What is the ridiculous reason?
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| and we'll stop throwing money away. |
If it's for a purpose, it's not being thrown away.
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| If we just keep our noses out of every one else's buisness we'll be alright. |
Isolationism doesn't work very well.
And I find it quite interesting that I'm arguing with both someone who thinks we should have done more sooner, and someone who things we shouldn't be doing anything.
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Brightscales
Shining Dragonstar
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 43
Location: I'm neither here nor there so i must be somewhere
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 11:40 Post subject: |
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"Indeed, things will change. The Iraqi government would collapse due to the absence of US forces acting as support, the half-trained police forces will revert to their militias, world opinion of the US will drop even lower, terrorist groups in Iraq will call it their victory for chasing the US out, allowing them to recruit more... I can't think of any good changes, but yes, things will change."
The good things are that our innocent people and theirs WILL STOP GETTING MURDERED!!! World opinion is already low; we would be respected if we got out now instead of letting this war drag on. If we didn't go there in the first place we wouldn't have this pradicament now would we?
"What is the ridiculous reason?"
The reason is that this is a ludacris war!!! It has no point, no purpose.
"If it's for a purpose, it's not being thrown away."
Again, see above
"Isolationism doesn't work very well."
I'm not saying we should isolate ourselves from the world, I'm sayin we should help countries that REALLY NEED IT!!!! (i.e. DARFUR!!!!)
"And I find it quite interesting that I'm arguing with both someone who thinks we should have done more sooner, and someone who things we shouldn't be doing anything."
I think we should be helping people instead of killing them.
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Brightscales
Shining Dragonstar
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 43
Location: I'm neither here nor there so i must be somewhere
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 11:40 Post subject: |
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My quote thingy doesn't work.
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 14:08 Post subject: |
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| Brightscales wrote: |
| The good things are that our innocent people and theirs WILL STOP GETTING MURDERED!!! |
In the instability following a US withdrawal at this point, violence will increase, and more of them will die. In either case, people will die. If we stay, the numbers of dead may be lower due to the extra stability US forces are able to provide right now.
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| World opinion is already low; we would be respected if we got out now instead of letting this war drag on. |
The US would be seen as an irresponsible power who went in, broke everything, and left when it got inconvenient. At least right now, there's some attempt at fixing everything.
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| If we didn't go there in the first place we wouldn't have this pradicament now would we? |
I conceded that fact at the beginning. No matter how you look at it though, we are there NOW.
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| The reason is that this is a ludacris war!!! It has no point, no purpose. |
It's ridiculous because it's ridiculous. An excellent example of circular reasoning.
Regardless, it does have a purpose: to create a stable state out of the current instability.
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"Isolationism doesn't work very well."
I'm not saying we should isolate ourselves from the world, I'm sayin we should help countries that REALLY NEED IT!!!! (i.e. DARFUR!!!!) |
On the contrary, you said:
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| If we just keep our noses out of every one else's buisness we'll be alright. [Emphasis mine] |
There was no condition set for "countries that really need it".
Taking your statement as a clarification, then yes, I agree completely. However, people's judgments over who really needs help will always differ. How do we decide which countries really need help? How does Iraq, whose current level of stability is due in large part to the presence of US forces, not qualify as somewhere that needs help?
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| I think we should be helping people instead of killing them. |
In theory, an excellent proposal, but virtually impossible to implement as stated. Any solution involving military forces will involve many people being killed.
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To win against an opponent stronger than yourself, you must not be weaker than that opponent. - Takamachi Nanoha |
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Dragoneyes
Dragonstar
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Great Lake State, Michigan,U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 18:19 Post subject: |
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Ragnarok I don't agree with you often but you are right on your points here...
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Solid
Dragonstar
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 969
Location: The other side of somewhere.
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| Posted: Thu 20 Mar 2008 19:38 Post subject: |
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I'm, sorry I ment the Al-Queda, I always get them and the Taliban mixed. There are few thing I would have to adgree with Ragnarok, if we pull out now we will lose even more respect then what we have right now. Also that we need to stop bothing with the If question and start to think about the NOW questions.
Now about my first post, I was told by my brother that Sadam was planning to invade again. This was from him and I did not ask for proof so I might be wrong. But even if he was'nt we still got rid of a power hungery leader.
I'll post more later for I have limted time on my computer.
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