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Brightscales
Shining Dragonstar
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 43
Location: I'm neither here nor there so i must be somewhere
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 Posted: Wed 19 Mar 2008 11:22 Post subject: The "War on Terror" in Iraq |
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Does anyone here think this "war on terror" is justified? Can the government continue to lie to the people? If we keep this "war" up we're going to go bankrupt. We spent $531 billion dollars on this ludacris war.
We could have given that money to help people to get healthcare, education, food and shelter. I wanted to know if anyone here agreed with me on this subject.
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END WAR!!! PEACE NOW!!! |
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Wed 19 Mar 2008 13:39 Post subject: |
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Restricting my answers to Iraq, I don't think we should have gone in, especially with, as we now know, horrible intelligence gaffes during the build-up to the war and minimal post-overthrow plans. I remember saying, at the start, that the biggest problem is that if anyone really wants to fight, they'd use guerrilla tactics and not fight in the open; which is exactly what has happened. Further, without a detailed reconstruction plan and the manpower to run it, any goodwill that the population may have had in the beginning would rapidly dissipate, which, again, is what happened.
Currently, however, I don't think we can afford to leave. Don't get me wrong here, I'd like nothing more than to have every last soldier out of Iraq, but since, in large part, the US military is what is keeping the government stable, pulling out now, before ensuring that the Iraqi government has the means and will to remain intact would cause a power vacuum, and in all likelihood, cause the country to collapse again. Given that, there's really no choice other than to continue to keep American soldiers on the ground and continue to fund reconstruction and training efforts there.
Not to say, of course, that there aren't much better ways to spend money or to track how it is being spent. Back in 2005, for example, there was a report from the inspector general stating that almost $9 billion had simply vanished. Track what is going on, make sure any company doing business there does what they are paid to do (pay them after they do their work), use local businesses where possible (under the same conditions as the previous item), etc, but use the funds wisely instead of spraying it around everywhere and doing, essentially nothing.
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To win against an opponent stronger than yourself, you must not be weaker than that opponent. - Takamachi Nanoha |
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Solid
Dragonstar
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 969
Location: The other side of somewhere.
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| Posted: Wed 19 Mar 2008 14:42 Post subject: |
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The War in Iraq, there are people who think it for oil there are people that think that we want to control over the Middle east. Most of these are ill founded and out right wrong.
There are good things that have come out of Iraq we got Saddam. Who was in fact planning on invading a country (not to sure witch) again. We are giving the their government a chance to get some control over the Taliban. US soldiers are training the Iraq army so they can fight.
Now the war happened at a bad time. With the hurricane and all. We are fighting on TWO fronts along with are own problems at home.
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Rest in Peace, Ronnie James Dio, from Mortal to God, Rest in Peace.(1942-2010) |
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Wed 19 Mar 2008 14:46 Post subject: |
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| Solid wrote: |
| There are good things that have come out of Iraq we got Sadam. Who was in fact planning on invading a country (not to sure witch) again. |
No he wasn't. I think you're thinking of the Persian Gulf War in the early 90s, when he invaded Kuwait.
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| We are giving the their goverment a chance to get some control over the Talaban. |
The Taliban was in Afghanistan. 
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To win against an opponent stronger than yourself, you must not be weaker than that opponent. - Takamachi Nanoha |
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Dragoneyes
Dragonstar
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Great Lake State, Michigan,U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed 19 Mar 2008 19:58 Post subject: |
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I think if we would have gone to Baghdad back when George senior was in charge it would not be like it is today. Without the rest of Nato involved it makes us look like we are the bad guys.
If we leave Iraq nothing is going to change. They will have another self proclaimed Prime minister or religious nut to run their country. The middle east and the surrounding countries are very war mongering. They are always killing each other over land that they all claim. Religions are the problem. Everyone thinks they are the chosen ones. Bah I hope they kill each other off. Long live the Devil.....lol
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Ragnarok
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Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Wed 19 Mar 2008 20:26 Post subject: |
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| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| I think if we would have gone to Baghdad back when George senior was in charge it would not be like it is today. Without the rest of Nato involved it makes us look like we are the bad guys. |
I'll defer to the first President Bush for the answer to that question.
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| President Bush repeatedly declared that the fate of Saddam Hussein was up to the Iraqi people. Occasionally, he indicated that removal of Saddam would be welcome, but for very practical reasons there was never a promise to aid an uprising. While we hoped that popular revolt or coup would topple Saddam, neither the U.S. nor the countries of the region wished to see the breakup of the Iraqi state. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs....We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-cold war world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the U.N.'s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome. |
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| The middle east and the surrounding countries are very war mongering. |
Not really, actually. Turkey, Iran, Israel and Palestine are the only violent ones (Iraq aside, of course); Iran's not exactly overt about it and seems to produce more noise than anything else and Turkey is mostly internal (expeditions into Iraq to pursue rebel forces notwithstanding).
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To win against an opponent stronger than yourself, you must not be weaker than that opponent. - Takamachi Nanoha |
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Dragoneyes
Dragonstar
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Great Lake State, Michigan,U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed 19 Mar 2008 20:38 Post subject: |
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I agree with a lot of what he said But, if we where to allow The coalition forces to take Baghdad we could have pulled this off but we had to be Christian and screw it up.
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Ragnarok
Global Moderator
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 1091
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA.
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| Posted: Wed 19 Mar 2008 20:49 Post subject: |
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| Dragoneyes wrote: |
| I agree with a lot of what he said But, if we where to allow The coalition forces to take Baghdad we could have pulled this off but we had to be Christian and screw it up. |
Had the mission become an invasion rather than driving Iraqi forces back to the border, there would have been no coalition. In addition to what the article said about the Muslim countries and other allies pulling out at that point, there were no plans in place for an invasion or post-invasion. Had something like that happened, it probably would have been worse than it is now, because at least in this war, there was some planning for after the invasion, as opposed to none.
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