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Shiari
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009 11:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lizards are not the same things as snakes are not the same things crocodiles though yes, all are "reptiles". Europeans used "dragon" as a catch-all term for any large and/or mythical reptile.

However, a snake is a *snake* not a dragon. The rainbow serpent is a *snake* not a dragon.

It's like how some client tried to tell us one day that we couldn't use cat medicine on her $6k "cheetoh" (bengal-ocicat mix) because it was more like a dog so you needed to use dog medicine.

A cat is a *cat*, not a dog.
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Raven
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009 11:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flawed analogy. we're not discussing real animals that can be examined what we're discussing is the concept of the "dragon" as it was developed independently in various cultures.

Try opening your mind and accepting something other than the western as right.
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Shiari
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009 11:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try seeing that "dragon" is a western word to begin with. The concept of "dragon" was exactly what I said: The European WORD for ANY large and or mythological reptile-y creature. It was also used for the great unknown. "Here Be Dragons" on maps, for example.

Quetzalcaotl is Quetzalcaotl, the great feathered serpent according to HIS people. The rainbow serpent of australia is a *serpent* according to its believers.

I go by what the people say about the creatures *native* to their mythology. An oni is not an ogre, a youkai is not a demon. A Lung is a Lung.

You're coming off as extremely condescending, by the by. How is it western-centric... to use what the people to whom that mythology belongs to used?
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Raven
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009 12:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Try seeing that "dragon" is a western word to begin with. The concept of "dragon" was exactly what I said: The European WORD for ANY large and or mythological reptile-y creature. It was also used for the great unknown. "Here Be Dragons" on maps, for example.


Of course the word dragon is a western word. We're speaking (or typing) English. That doesn't mean the concept is western. If there wasn't something that linked the mythological creatures called dragons in the west to the mythological creatures elsewhere the word wouldn't be translated to dragon. Clearly, in the mind of the translators, at least there is some base similarity between these creatures.

Of course, that could just be the ethnocentricity (apparently not a word) of the translators at work...
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Shiari
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009 12:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

And also misinformation. I bring forth the koala "bear" as an example. As well as marsupial "lion" and tasmanian "tiger". And the bird of paradise where only a skin was sent back to the guy who named it, and he thought that the bird was proof of eden, because it didn't have *feet*. Oh, and let's not forget the Indians...

The concept of "dragon" is western, because the europeans came up with it. Lungs are Lungs because the people of the east came up with *that*.

What I've always wondered is why a snake with feathers (not wings, just feathers) gets labeled as a "dragon" so much, but the thunderbird does not. After all, it creates lightning and clouds, and is often depicted with teeth and horns. Sounds much more dragony that a snake with a couple feathers stuck to it.
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Ankaru
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009 16:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offense, but I meant what I said. The gods don't want to reveal themselves to mortals because of their fear of their subjects finding a weakness and exploiting that weakness if they tried to rebel. In that context, the gods choose to reveal themselves as whatever their subjects are most likely to believe in. As a side note, some people consider snakes to be smaller versions of dragons, as some mythological dragons are shown as serpent-like. Some even believe that snakes can transform into dragons if they get old enough.
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Ragnarok
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009 16:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver Dragon wrote:
The gods don't want to reveal themselves to mortals because of their fear of their subjects finding a weakness and exploiting that weakness if they tried to rebel.


That sounds more like a petty tyrant than a god. Weakness? Fear? Exploitable weakness? Shouldn't a god be better than that?
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Raven
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar 2009 16:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That sounds more like a petty tyrant than a god. Weakness? Fear? Exploitable weakness? Shouldn't a god be better than that?


Not necessarily. Consider the Greek gods. Filled with all sorts of weaknesses.
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