Thoughts about humans?

[theDragonofDorn]

I think this would be the right place for this, thought I pondered for a wghile whether it belonged here or in the dragon newbies as I guess it's a newbie question, but it's also otherkin specific.

I'm curiouse, how do you, as dragons (or whatever variety of otherkin, in case there's anythone else about here) feel/think about humans or human society?

[Hyraxylos]

On the whole, I admire humanity for the developments it has made thusfar. My regret is that we're not advancing fast enough on the subject of the MIND, but I'm just impatient that way. I used to be more anti-human several years ago before I really understood all that I understand now and thought it all out, in a careful process of thoughts that I weighed out carefully, and surprisingly there was no mention of draconity anywhere in there. It's kinda confusing in some parts because of my weird belief that hatred is actually a living, thinking, independently-willed force, so bear with me on that. It went something like this:

1. <Dark> Humans are responsible for the vast majority of harm inflicted upon the planet, the environment, and their own species.
2. <Light> Humans are responsible for all the world's problems because humans just so happen to rule the world. It just kinda follows without saying that they'd be at fault. So what's your point?
3. <Dark> Exactly, and my point is that Nature has recovered herself from some pretty rough **** in the past; all the problems that carry over OUTSIDE the human species will fix themselves deterministically if only homo sapiens will go extinct.
4. <Light> Agreed. If humans go extinct, all human-imposed problems will be solved. And then someone else will take over and inflict the exact same mistakes.
5. <Dark> Wrong. Humans are fundamentally DIFFERENT from other creatures because they were corrupted by hatred of other living things. There are no other organisms in this world who hate other organisms instead of merely fearing them.
6. <Light> Hate chose to corrupt humanity because humanity was in charge. The thriving of homo sapiens emerged first, and the emerging power was what tempted the One False God into corrupting them. It won't pass to other creatures because it doesn't see a need to do so as long as humans are around.
7. <Dark> Humans are overpopulated and are still too selfish to learn to restrict themselves.
8. <Light> That directly contradicts established proof of humans catching on to what's wrong with The Way Things Are.
9. <Dark> The people who are fully hateful do not WANT to listen to reason and find enlightenment, and they do not want anyone else to find enlightenment either. They'll turn on the humans that manage to cleanse themselves.
10. <Light> That'd be a losing battle. The humans that don't care about hurting others for no reason are the ones who have Science on their side, the ones who actually care about thriving. You ACTUALLY think religious fundamentalists can defeat the more intelligent people who move technology forward? What the heck is wrong with you?
11. <Dark> They're still overpopulated and need to die out.
12. <Light> No, they need to breed less, and that's already being taken care of by the diminished fertility rate. Humans need to stick around so they can become wiser and then enlighten other creatures that may come under risk of the same corruption homo sapiens was subjected to.
13. <Dark> You're pissing me off! I'm gonna kick your ***!!
14. <Light> *frown* That's not very rational.

...and it kinda got a little rough there. But as with most other conflicts that happen inside my skull, Reason wound up once again getting its way in the end. I think the faults of humanity could just as easily have happened to anyone else, and we need to continue living and developing on a philosophical level because we're the most empowered to solving the problem, however we manage to do it.
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[Whitefire]

I agree with Hyraxylos's Dark side, but it seems the issue of human error is a two-ended stick: other animals haven't led to such a corruption of the planet because their brains aren't as developed as ours...but if humans didn't have such active brains, they would be like other animals-they would survive, but wouldn't remember and learn and ponder and all the great things that make humans an interesting species. So I guess the issue I have with humans is not the things that make our brains great, but the things that make our primitive minds evil, i.e. a need for power and a constant obsession with the self (that's a generalization, of course...not all people are like that). That's the only issue I have with humanity; it seems our higher intelligence doesn't mingle well with the drive to survive.
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[theDragonofDorn]

An interesting view point, Hyraxylos. Though it leaves me wishing that my subconciouse were half so fun as yours sounds.

Though, I guess I preffer my thoughts, since it'd be a bit much having arguments in my own skull, and I'm sure the entertainment value whears off after a bit.

I'm not sure I'm to the point of hating all humans for ruining the earth, (though, I've always felt humans don't every really try to fix a thing unless they broke it in the first place.) I don't know that I could hate whole species. Don't think I've quite got it in me to do that.

Whitefire, I can completely see your point. I mean, there aren't any bears in the woods working on the second manhatain project. But there also aren't any bears finding ways to fix global warming, or rehabilitate endangered species populations, or trying to create viable space travel.

Thanks for the responces.

[DarkDragon]

First point that needs to be made is that we are human, and there is no avoiding that, 'kin or not... So if we hate humanity, we also hate ourselves

That said, humans are such a vastly variable species that trying to make a statement about the whole from any slice of the population is impossible. There are only a few statements that are true of humanity as a whole, such as the following.

1. Humanity is the dominant species on Earth, reaching every corner of the globe.

2. Humanity comes in many colors: Black, brown, white, red, yellow, etc...

3. Humanity is a species that are in a constant flux of social evolution, as you can well see if you look at the history of the past 350 years.

Beyond that, there is no catch-all for humanity , given the individuals that comprise this sentient race.

Yes, Humans have begun to destroy their environment, in their drive to expand and find natural resources to fuel their societies. However, I certainly cannot hate humanity as a whole for this. Yes, there are power hungry individuals, those who seek only wealth and power. But there are just as many people who are trying to help the environment, though things such as solar power and sustainable farming.

The majority of humanity limit themselves to their own small little bubble of existence, not trying to tip the global scales one way or another, and are one of the reasons that the planet isn't in worse shape than it is. Since they keep to their own little zone, they have a smaller impact, though the inverse is also true, it being harder to make a decisive difference if you limit yourself to a small sphere of influence.

While humanity's great expansion is the root of many of the world's ecological problems, the sad fact is that from an evolutionary standpoint, the development of such intelligence was inevitable. If humans had not come so far, another of the great apes, or even a completely different species would have evolved, and they would have developed and expanded, eventually causing the same problems, though their causes may be slightly different.

All in all, I cannot hate humanity for it's faults, being human myself, because I know that we are still capable of turning things around. we might not be able to completely restore the planet, but we can at least begin to clean the world up.

(Sorry if I seem to peter off, but I just woke up and am still a bit tired)
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[theDragonofDorn]

Interesting how everyone is asuming that, by asking for thoughs on humans, or OK, non-kin, everyone is assuming that I'm getting at hatred, or the environment. I don't hate anything, I was just wondering how other otherkin relate to those who are...different from them, and for the most part probably unable to understand them.

Because, well, they are dominant, and we all have to deal with them. And I never meant to imply that I wasn't biologicaly human, since that's just silly. However, being spiritualy dragons means that it's a fare bet we think about things, abd relate to the world diffenetly than those who are stricktly human in their thought processes. At least, that seems logical to me.

I'm going to keep seeing what I get from this thread. The response has been very interesting. Perhapse I should re-word my query, as I've a habit of not being precise enough with them:

How do you, as kin, relate to non-kin, humans, whatever you want to call those who aren't dragons, or feel toward the group or particular groups or even individuals (I'm still leaving it open), and why? If you feel hate, then say so, But I don't mean that nessisarily.

[Hyraxylos]

I didn't assume you hated humanity, although sometimes newly Awakened otherkin tend to react (overreact rather) to their discovery by blaming a ton of problems, which may or may not pertain to themselves directly, to humans acting like what they are. I wasn't TOO affected by this myself because I was already depressed and already had a dark view of humanity before Awakening. Again, getting over it was simply a matter of expanding my view from a mere "We're selfish." to "We're selfish along with everyone else because survival encourages selfishness in nature."

As for the argument-in-the-head thing, that's something that I suspect everyone experiences when they spend any amount of time pondering debatable philosophy. Sometimes you talk to yourself, and depending on the subject you might also end up in a full-blown argument with yourself. ...Or in my case a total melee. >.>;
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[JKarrah]

Personally, I don't think much about humans as a whole one way or another simply because I have yet to meet all of them. If pressed to make a statement I would have to say that I believe humans are exactly what this planet has evolved them to be.

Many people believe the planet itself is not only alive, but has a soul and a living consciousness. Now, suppose for a moment that the aforementioned belief is accurate. Planet Earth is a living being, a totality of consciousness. What are the two most basic, most primal drives of a living creature? Personal survival and survival of the species through procreation. A living creature survives by finding enough sustenance to maintain it's life force and proper functions: personal survival. The point of procreation can be seen as the spreading of one's influence, one's genetic materials as far and wide as possible: species survival. This is easy to see in the "microcosm"of the natural world.

Now let's take it to the macrocosm of the planet itself. A planet can be seen as gaining personal sustenance from the sun, but it can't just spread out to new territory, find another planet to mate with and spread it's genetic codes. It's pretty much stuck where it is. Isolated, forever separated from any other planet.

Or is it?

The planet evolves various life forms, puts them through all sorts of physical stressors to see which one evolves an independent and intelligent consciousness... like it's mother. The planet selects some of these creatures to be endowed not only with intelligent consciousness, but with a massive amount of curiosity and "itchy feet" which in turn causes them to be driven to explore and find out what lies beyond the next bend in the road, on the other side of the mountains...

Given enough time, these creatures will have explored pretty much everything on their homeworld there is to explore. What next? They look up and wonder "what's beyond the limits of the sky? What lies among the stars? So they build tools to see beyond the bounds of their mother and discover other planets. So they start building the tools and technology necessary to visit these cosmic aunts and uncles, as it were. Eventually, they reach these other worlds and build colonies... primitive at first, yes, but eventually more sophisticated.

And finally, you reach the point where whole generations have been born, lived and died on these other worlds, but they still carry within them the genetic heritage of their species' planet of origin.

Planet Earth has successfully propagated herself because humans evolved into exactly the tool using, overly curious.... occasional pain in the ass... species She needed them to be.

And if they don't, if they screw up and completely mess up their "room" Planet Earth will wipe them out just as She's done countless other species and try again. She is still young, not even through 1/3 of Her projected lifespan. She'll eventually raise exactly the type of children She needs.

I'm curious to see how far they will go during the lifespan of this current body.
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