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kimodragon
Dragonstar


Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 270
Location: The Void

PostPosted: Fri 19 May 2006 17:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shall first speak from the perspective of an unwanted human being. Because that is how I started out.

I was an oops! An unplanned pregnancy, a surprise, a mistake, I wasn't suppose to be here. And I did not have a choice over life or death. That was my mothers choice. And my mother did think about abortion for a minute I am sure.

My mother was native american and the man that donated the other half of me was, and maybe still is black. Very uncool in the time that I was to be born.

My mothers people were not going to accept me at all.And they were going to disown my mother for her great sin. The sperm donor bailed! When my mother found out that she was pregnant she ran away from the tribe and ended up having me in secret! Thank you Mom! And gave me up to the state to raise. She did not even name me.

I was raised in orphnages and foster care. And all of the horror stories that go with it.

A wonderful black couple decided that they wanted cute little ol' me and began the adoption process. In the middle of this process,which takes about a year, my mother got another little suprise!

My brother as it would turn out. Same scenerio different chicken dude flew responsibility!

The beautiful, good hearted,kind loving couple that we now call Mom and Dad did not want to split the set and adopted both of us.Hooray Mom and Dad!!!!!

My birth mother sadly died giving birth to my little brother due to complications. We never got to thank her face to face for giving us life. But will still try to tell her everyday.

Now Mom and Dad did this process not once, not twice, but six more times. Accepting unwanted human beings into our lives. I call them my brothers!

I am the first of 8 different stories of love.All of us have our own different little problems to deal with.

One of my brothers was born with fetal alcohol sydrome and some mental problems.Another brother was born addicted to crack and if not for our Mom and Dads' love would have spent his life institutionalized. 6 out of the 8 of us are on medications to help us cope with mental and emotional problems. Usually 2 or 3 meds at one time.

But we all are thankful that we are here, even living through the horror stories that are our lives.Each and every one of us could have been aborted and we would have never have known.

Yeah we can look back now and say how cruel and immoral it would have been. But at the time that it would have happened we would not have known.

I have lived with children that have special needs for life and I have worked in the lives of others that have far, far worse problems than ours. I have even met a girl who is a botched abortion and knowing her I can say that I wished that she had been killed!

She has and never will have a life! But she lives. She does not have a conscious mind but she grows, she can not eat but she is feed, she cannot relate to anything around her......But she is loved!!!

She was adopted by two people who knew all of this before they decided that they would love her.

We the unwanted fetuses of the world that live know pain, suffering,loss,hunger, sadness, and some of us know joy, pleasure and love. But for those of our kind that are not in this world, they know nothing!

Sometimes just sometimes abortion is a blessing. But it all starts with the choice of a woman! And Hooray adoption!!! Applause Applause Applause

Thanks for listening
Kimodragon
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Last edited by kimodragon on Mon 19 Jul 2010 5:41; edited 1 time in total
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ZucaTreangeli
Dragonstar


Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu 03 Aug 2006 0:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiamat wrote:
So what makes a human fetus so special anyway? There is almost no difference between the early stages of human and other mammal fetuses. Of course, it can be argued that the human fetus will (but not with certainty) develop into a thinking, feeling human adult, which means you shouldn't kill it... So then, I guess the [animal] fetus will develop into a non-thinking, non-feeling adult [animal]. Then again, it may not. Mooses know that there's always next year.

Does anyone have a serious problem with killing a fertilized egg cell? What about killing one of these here worm-things in the picture? Well, what's the difference, really? (I also happen to think of fetuses as parasites.)

In the first two stages, at least, of the human embryo, there's a heartbeat and that's about it. The chicken you had for dinner and the raccoon that the office building down the street just hired an exterminator to eliminate had heartbeats too, y'know.


This picture is exactly what I was pointing at in my other debate, namely on the theory of evolution.. This picture was found in many many school books, they are old drawings created by Ernst Haeckel it was modified to follow his own theories, he made forgeries to prove his theories.. So this example you use is completely invalid.. It has been proven to be a forgery.

I agree with you on the parasite thing, basically a growing fetus is a parasite, seeing that they sit in your body, taking foods and goods from it, yet dont give anything in return (mentall happiness doesnt count, for its self induced, not created by the fetus).. So yeah, fetusses are technically parasites..


Lets go on with the topic. kimodragon I admire your story, but just because it went well for you, doesnt mean it goes well for others.. Some parents dont have the mental capibilities to give birth to a child to then give it away for adoption, it leaves them crippled in their mind.

Abortion is a choice I think should be given to rape victims, victims of an accident that they cant do anything against, and I guess that the choice should also be given to people who's future child has a very high chance of having a defect that will well, differentiate them the rest of their life.

For the rest, for the people who made an "oops" mistake, I think they should not get the choice for abortion, you dont make mistakes with such things.. Oops I'm not on the pill and oops at the same time we didnt use good condoms or a condom at all ??.. Come on, noones that stupid anymore these days..
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Nirvana
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PostPosted: Thu 03 Aug 2006 10:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree particularly with roadkill. lol, nice name...lol. Really, it is creative.

anywho, I agree with him/her.

"killing" cells is really some late decision cleaning up, it just happens to be in the woman's body....ouch...
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Valos
Shining Dragonstar


Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 117
Location: NC

PostPosted: Thu 03 Aug 2006 14:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

roadkill wrote:

And as just one more personal note. If I discovered that my child had an extra cromosone (spell check), that causes down sindrom, I would consider an abortion. I think it is crule to make a person suffer.


I want you to watch this and then tell me it is cruel to allow him the gift of life.

http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site/view_shared?p=41811d19928d655419aea
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ZucaTreangeli
Dragonstar


Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri 04 Aug 2006 1:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valos wrote:
roadkill wrote:

And as just one more personal note. If I discovered that my child had an extra cromosone (spell check), that causes down sindrom, I would consider an abortion. I think it is crule to make a person suffer.


I want you to watch this and then tell me it is cruel to allow him the gift of life.

http://www.onetruemedia.com/otm_site/view_shared?p=41811d19928d655419aea


So what is the point of this video.. ??.. Showing that a mom can love her child and in that aspect the child is happy ??.. Well I could have told you that in the first place that the mom and dad are "usually" not the problem. (sometimes they are).

Its the other kids, its what happens when they get older, when the teens arrive with games of dominance when the stage for flirting comes when a lot of things happen that are bad and will target a child because it is different and it cant do anything about it.. Thats when the missery sets in, and no mom and dad can sooth that by only saying "ignore them, your special, dont worry it will be alright".. For even when they turn 20 - 30 - 40.. This will continue the older generations will still look weirdly, make comments behind this back, will still scold him and laugh at him when he doesnt do something as he's supposed to do..

So what exactly is this video to show of his life in "the world".. Instead of the comfort of his moms bosom ??.. Because there isnt one picture that goes beyond that..
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Rayadragon
Shining Dragonstar


Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 264
Location: Somewhere between reality and imagination

PostPosted: Fri 04 Aug 2006 10:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

As most of you know, my older brother is multidisabled. I love him to death and wouldn't want him any other way. For the most part, he's a happy guy. I couldn't imagine not having him in my life.

By the same token though, it breaks my heart when he asks me why god hates him, or when he talks on and on asking when there's going to be medicine to make him better. He's well aware that he's different, he's confused as to why he's different, and can't understand why people treat him differently. He's a chatty, outgoing guy, and hates how he can never convey to others what he's thinking or feeling because he has difficulty talking. I remember the creulty shown to him in highschool by both students and teachers. I love him to death, but it hurts me so much to see him hurting too.

Although he faces difficulty out in the world, at home he's loved by me and our parents, and we accept him for who he is and what he can and cannot do. But what if a disabled person doesn't even have that to fall back on? I just recently learned that one of my dad's cousins was born with down's syndrome. He was essentially locked in his room most of the time, wasn't allowed to go to school, and his family generally pretended he didn't exist. After his mother died, his father didn't want anything left to do with him, and had him institutionalized. Apparently, he's still there, and no one visits him. My dad barely even remembers him. I also remember hearing a story about a wealthy family who had a son with severe cerbral palsey, the type where they're unable to walk, generally unable to move, and unable to communicate. One day, when the boy was about 10, they brought him to a hospital, and left him there, with a note explaining that they couldn't stand taking care of him anymore.

Yes, people who are disabled can live full, happy, healthy lives. They are thier own person, and have no reason to compare themselves to what's normal and accepted, and they deserve to be loved for the person that they are, no more, no less. However, I can't begrudge someone the choice of having an abortion if they know that they're going to have a child born with disabilities.
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Raven
Shining Dragonstar


Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 660
Location: Lost in his mind...

PostPosted: Fri 04 Aug 2006 15:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, people who are disabled can live full, happy, healthy lives. They are thier own person, and have no reason to compare themselves to what's normal and accepted, and they deserve to be loved for the person that they are, no more, no less. However, I can't begrudge someone the choice of having an abortion if they know that they're going to have a child born with disabilities.


Some people can. Not everyone has that strenght. I doubt that I would, but, fortunatly, I'm not in that situation.

As for using 'they might be disabled' as an excuse for an abortion, I don't think it's legitimate.
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Rayadragon
Shining Dragonstar


Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 264
Location: Somewhere between reality and imagination

PostPosted: Sun 06 Aug 2006 20:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raven wrote:
Some people can. Not everyone has that strenght.


True enough, but I don't really see how this contridicts anything I've said.

Might be disabled does NOT equal that the parents know the child will be disabled. There are many, many genetically inherited diseases that basically will be hell for the child and the child will die at an early age. Down's syndrome is caused (generally) by having 3 chromosome 21s, but two other trisomies (= 3 of one chromosome) do result in a living child. Unfortunatly, one of them leads to death within a year of birth, and one leads to death within a few weeks. In cases of a known disorder with a known early, early death, I don't see why parents should be denied the right of an abortion.[/quote]
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